How many times have you determined you want to create a new habit, only to have your plans, dreams, and goals crash and burn within the first week? If this is you, please hit play on this episode! Meg is starting off the new year with a FANTASTIC conversation with Monica Packer of the super popular podcast About Progress. Monica is here to assure us that there is nothing wrong with you, we just need to have a new understanding around how we can create lasting changes in our lives in some very awesome ways. You do NOT want to miss this one!
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SHOW NOTES:
Sign up for Monica’s (FREE!) habit class
MORE EPISODES FROM SORTA AWESOME:
Ep. 422: All the Awesome of 2022 (a group show!)
Ep. 369: Compassionate advice for the new year with Rev. Mary Lee Downey
Ep. 273: A MUST-LISTEN to heal from 2020 for an awesome 2021
Ep. 162: Self-care, self-comfort, what’s healthy, what’s not
You can find Meg on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram!
Find Monica at the About Progress website and on Instagram!
Visit sortaawesomeshow.com for show notes on this and every episode. And don’t forget to find us in the Sorta Awesome Hangout on Facebook or @sortaawesomeshow on Instagram, and @sortaawesomepod on Twitter!
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TRANSCRIPT:
SA EP 423
Meg: [00:00:00] It is January 6th, 2023 and sorta awesome is back friends. I am absolutely and totally delighted to be joined today by Monica Packer. Monica is the creator and host of the Wildly Popular About Progress Podcast where she explores how women can experience lasting change in their lives through progress that is practical and realistic.
Meg: Monica, welcome to Sorta Awesome.
Monica: Thank you for having me. I love what you did with that intro.
Meg: Well, I really am so thrilled to have you here with me today as we're starting off this brand new year. You know, this is a topic that is on the lines of a lot of us right now. It's the beginning of the year.
Meg: We're thinking about like, what do we want the year ahead to look like? Are these visions that I have for the year ahead, these dreams I have for the year ahead, is it even possible? Am. Does it come down to habits? Am I just like bad at habits? Which Monica, honestly, that is a question I [00:01:00] have grappled with so many times.
Meg: Like, am I a person who's just bad at habits? And I know like that's your, like, that's your area of expertise is talking to women who feel like maybe I just don't understand how habits work,
Monica: right? Yes. And it didn't start that way. Like, we'll, and we'll talk more about, you know, the journey of getting here and stuff.
Monica: Yeah. But did not intend to become a habit expert because just like you. . I thought I was really bad at them for a very long time. Yeah. So, yes. So just know that's where I'm coming from and I hope that makes all the women who are listening like, okay, I can just take a breath and I can, I can
Meg: take this in.
Meg: Exactly, and that's why I'm so excited about this conversation because I know that your approach absolutely fits in with the really grace minded approach that we have. It's sort of awesome where we lean really heavy on this sorta about things,
Monica: you know? That's why we are so. Yes, we are in alignment.
Meg: Yes, exactly.
Meg: Exactly. So I am so excited to get into this conversation with you. I know you guys are going [00:02:00] to really love Monica's approach to this conversation, and spoiler alert, Monica is an awesome too. So we have a lot of great information to get to you today. I'm Meg Tez and this. It's sorta awesome.
Meg: Welcome back. Austin's to the show that loves to support you in becoming. Strong and social. If you've been looking for amazing women to connect with and a community that will support you, no matter what age or stage of life you are in, I am so happy to tell you that you have absolutely come to the right place.
Meg: Not only is sorta os. Of podcast. We're also a community. In fact, we can be your community on the go. So come and join us in one of our online communities. You can find us on Facebook in our sort of awesome hangout. We've been there for seven [00:03:00] years. We have almost 6,000 very awesome women who meet their every day to get recommendations and give advice and share wisdom, and basically make a difference in each other's lives by taking care of each other along the way.
Meg: And again, that's on Facebook. That's sort of awesome. Come and find us on Instagram. We have so much fun over there at sorta awesome show as well. It's a great way to start off the year with finding your sorta awesome community. So Monica, as an awesome, you know that we love to start sorta awesome, uh, with our Awesomes of the week and if you are new to sorta awesome.
Meg: Awesome of the week is the moment in the show where we stop and talk about just whatever's making life a little bit more awesome. Right now, whether it's a book or a TV show, maybe a movie, a book, a podcast, some kind of a product, whatever's bringing a little gold sparkle to our days. Monica, I can't wait to hear what you brought for Awesome.
Meg: Of the week this week. Okay, so I've
Monica: been thinking about this because I love this segment on your show, and mine is gonna [00:04:00] be so not. or , like very like middle aged woman .
Meg: Awesome. That's perfect. So yes, that's what we are here
Monica: for. That's great to hear. Okay, so what I have to share is a mop, and it's not just any mop though.
Monica: And I'll just start this by saying when we got a cheaper. Uh, steam mop a couple years ago. I just found it life changing cuz I didn't get, have to get my hands and knees to wipe up the floor. The steam just evaporates really quickly. It was safe on my wood floors. I know different people say different things, but it seems safe on mine.
Monica: But yeah, about mm, four months ago it broke. Like the top handle just broke. Cuz my kids use it to help clean too, which, you know, God bless them. Mm-hmm. . But they broke it. Yes. And that's okay. We duct taped. Didn't work. . I finally had to just say like, it's time to buy a new mop. So I got another shark steam mop, but I got a new model that, okay, has pads on the bottom, that [00:05:00] spin.
Monica: So not only is it, you know, steaming and drying really quickly, it's now spinning and like getting the nitty gritty stuff a lot better. Yes, yes. And this has only been like a week that we've had it and I'm in love. I'm actually gonna hurry and go and, and steam mo the kitchen before I go pick up my kids from early release on Fridays after this.
Monica: So highly recommending, oh, and the pads are washable. That's what I love about it.
Meg: Even better. Yeah, even better. I mean, any mop that you're like, I'm excited to use this. I'm gonna go hit up my floors real fast before I move on to the next thing. That's like a game changer. And I, and
Monica: I usually dread this, uh, chore.
Monica: So I have to say that's partly why it's so awesome cuz I'm like, I'm gonna steam up my floor and I'm not procrastinating it as much as I normally do.
Meg: Listen, we are all about a product. It may seem boring on the surface. I think that anything that makes you like excited to do a thing that you don't wanna do and makes [00:06:00] it faster and more effective, that is like peak awesome right there.
Meg: So yeah, like win, win, win. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, for, for my awesome of the week, this week, this very first one of the year, I don't think anyone's gonna be surprised that I brought a lip product to talk about love
Monica: lip products.
Meg: Yes, I am always on the lookout. I. It's, it's almost a problem. I can never have enough
Meg: And not only do the awesomes know that, but also the algorithms that run ads on social media absolutely know this about me. Yes. So I have either been a victim of, or a beneficiary of social media marketing once again. So Monica, I, on Instagram, like one of the main things I really do get ads for are lip products and I kept.
Meg: Over and over these ads for say Beauty and Say is spelled s A I E. Oh. So it's Clean Beauty. And again, I think that Instagram, Facebook, they [00:07:00] know that I like the Clean Beauty products when I can find them. I like cruelty free, those types of things. I went over to check it out and Monica, one of the first things I noticed is if you buy from, say, beauty via Instagram, like in their little Instagram shop, you get like a 20.
Meg: Discount right off the top. . Okay,
Monica: so I was literally writing the stem. Yes, exactly. I was like,
Meg: oh, 24 Z you say. Okay. So again, I was intrigued by some of their lip products. I went with their lip blur, which is their matte. It is a long-wearing matte lipstick that also is hydrating. They've put a lot of those ingredients in there.
Meg: You know, mats can go one of two ways. They can be super drying. Or they can feel kind of healthy and nourishing. And that's what say beauty has done. They've put together a long-wearing shine free hydrating matte lipstick, and I'm super in love with it. So I got three shades because again, that 20% discount, what am I supposed to do?
Meg: [00:08:00] Right? ?
Monica: You have to have to try it. Are you wearing one now? I
Meg: am, yes.
Monica: Okay. . It's beautiful. I love it. I like wanna describe it to your listeners, but yeah, it's like perfect.
Meg: Thank you. I love a bold lip, and the one I'm wearing right now is their shade called Surreal, and it's their raspberry shade. So I got that one.
Meg: I also got a shade called classic, which is their blue red. I love a red lip. Then I did something a little different for me. I don't usually wear nude lipsticks, but they do have a rosy nude called modern. Again, I don't usually wear nudes, but the moment I tried this one on, I was like, oh my gosh, maybe I do love nudes after all, because this is Ooh, gorgeous.
Meg: So, yeah, and I think this is the first matte lipstick or any matte lip product that I've tried that's buildable. You can do one swipe and get a very nice pigmented color application, but if you wanna go bigger with the shade that you're wearing, if you wanna add a little bit more, [00:09:00] You can totally do another layer on top, which is what I've done for this surreal shade.
Meg: Cuz I like a, it's beautiful. I like a bold lip. So thank you for saying that. I'm genuinely loving it. It, it definitely is long wearing it absolutely will stay on through a meal without getting that weird ring around the lips. You know
Monica: what I'm talking about, ? Oh yes, I do. I'm also a bold lip enthusiast.
Meg: Yes.
Monica: Yes. So I feel like after I turned 30 when my lips started to suddenly turn gray mm-hmm. , I don't know. That's when I was like, bold lips. Let's
Meg: do bold lips. Let's do a bold lip. I am here for it. So I'm just loving these lip blurs from say, beauty. They really are long lasting and they really do feel so good.
Meg: Speaking of getting older, the older I get, now that I'm in my mid forties, I'm finding like I have to use so many hydrating moisturizing products. Yes. On the lips because they just get so dry so quickly. So I'm super loving these. I will put a link in the show notes. These are $24 each. That's the retail price.
Meg: [00:10:00] Like I said, if, and these are of course none of our awesome of the week ever sponsored or anything like that. So I'm not shilling for say beauty. I really love them. But if you buy through their Instagram shop, you can get 20% off. So, Check 'em out. Especially if you're like me and you love a matte lip that's gonna stay on for most of the day.
Meg: I think you'll like these. So these are our awesomes of the week. We love to hear what's awesome in your life. So like I said, at the top of the show, come and find us in one of our social media communities, whether it's our Facebook Hangout or on Instagram, so you can tell us all about what is bringing that gold glitter to your life right now.
Meg: Monica and I have so much to talk about, and again, it's so time. For this time of year, it's something on the minds of so many of us, we're gonna talk about habits and like, are we doing them wrong? Why aren't they working? What's the key to unlocking how to make habits work for us? We're gonna get to all of that when we come right back.
Meg: Okay. And we're back. Monica. I am so looking forward [00:11:00] to just hearing from you first before we even get into like the nitty gritty of habits and what you've uncover. What you've discovered. Let's just kinda start with your story. Like you said at the top of the episode, you were out on the prowl looking to become a teacher, an expert, the go-to person for things like how do we make lasting progress in our lives?
Meg: Tell us your story of how you found yourself here.
Monica: I think I'll start with seven years ago. Seven years ago, I had three kids born, three and under, and my husband was working around the clock. We almost never saw. . And the reason why that matters is only because my daughter called him Brad for years. cause that like by his first name, like, cause we saw him so infrequently and , you know, I was at that stage of motherhood where it's still new.
Monica: Mm-hmm . And you want to be a good mom for, so you are doing everything you can to be a good mom. But I think a [00:12:00] lot of women get to this place where they. lost. Mm-hmm. in some ways to the life they always wanted. Yeah. And that's where I was, I realized I am stuck in the beautiful life I always wanted, and I could have a different life if I chose really drastic things.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , even if it just came down to like our family moving and my husband changing his job and all that. But for me, I knew it wasn't that I wanted my life to. I wanted my life to feel different. Hmm. Okay. And the reason I knew wasn't feeling good was because I wasn't myself anymore. You know, again, I didn't know who I was anymore.
Monica: I lost myself in this good pursuit of just trying to be a good mom. Now, what this actually stems from for me is something a little further back in my story. The first 20 years of my life, I was totally the stereotypical. Perfectionist. Mm. You know, achievement oriented, very type A. Yep. And I say that in quotes because [00:13:00] I really think it was a mask I put on Yeah.
Monica: In order to perform at the level I thought it took for me to have those achievements. And you know, I did all the things. Great leadership first chair in, in the advanced band, like theater, academics, you name it. Got to college. and took a steady but dramatic nose dive with my mental health and I was like a 4.0 student in college.
Monica: Like I got a scholarship, all these things just from academic stuff, but when I turned around 20, I crashed and
Meg: burned. Oh yeah. Big time.
Monica: Mm-hmm. in such a dramatic fashion that my life literally was on the line. So I'm gonna spare the whole long story with that, but that my life really was on the line with mental health eating disorder.
Monica: My life was a wreck. Mm-hmm. And so in the pursuit of my recovery, I went to the other side of the perfectionism spectrum. I just didn't know it was on the [00:14:00] perfectionism spectrum for me. I just saw, I went right to the Do your responsibilities, but don't try in other areas. It's not safe to try. You know what it costs for you to have those achievements, like you know what it cost you almost cost you your life.
Monica: And it was a. Years. Years, years. Long recovery for me. I can imagine. To work past it, I imagine. Yeah. And that's partly what I'm sure we're gonna talk about today, is I was working so hard on my recovery and I wasn't changing, things were getting worse. Mm-hmm. for years. Mm-hmm. . But thankfully I can say now, like 17 years later, I am a different person.
Monica: So I wanna just get that little slip in the hope here. Yes. So we're gonna speed forward almost 10 years. Okay. That's where that first story was. I'm just about to approach my 30th. And realizing I don't know who I am. Mm-hmm. , but I also don't like who I'm being. Okay. Yeah. You know, I'm trying so hard to be a good mom and I've lost myself, which has made me a terrible mother.
Monica: Yeah. You know, I was [00:15:00] showing up to my kids in ways that. I hated. Mm. That I was so ashamed of and I knew things definitely needed to change. After like a few incidents of me like really falling apart, over like spilled milk, literally spilled milk. Literally spilled milk. Spilled milk. Yes.
Meg: I think we've all been there.
Meg: Very relatable.
Monica: Yeah. We've all been there. Yeah. So what was really wise about that time in my life is I had started to work with a therapist, but what she did is she helped me see, um, Monica. , you're still a perfectionist. Mm-hmm. . I'm like, how is that true? I haven't opened a day planner. Right. Wow. In like post a decade.
Monica: Mm-hmm. . I haven't had New Year's resolutions or goals or habits I've been working on. I do everything for my job, like when I was a teacher before I had kids, and I'll do it for my responsibilities at home, but I'm not a perfectionist and I learned I was on both sides of the spectrum. My identity was based on my outcomes.
Monica: Okay. Whether I had them or I did not have them, they [00:16:00] both stood in place of knowing who I was. So that is what began now has been a seven year accidental experiment of first uncovering who I was. Yeah. So that I could bring myself back into my life that I wanted, right? That I didn't necessarily want to have looked different as part of.
Monica: Along came the ride, learning how to find fulfillment in my day-to-day life, like inserting my identity that I was uncovering into my life. And then later on , as part of that came habit formation. What I was trying to do was find out if I could grow in my life outside of perfectionism. And that's why everything became about.
Monica: Because I'm telling you, Mike, I only knew one model. I only knew all or nothing. Yes. All or nothing. And we often hear that, like women say that I'm all or nothing, but they say that as a way to kind of praise themselves almost. Or I'm a perfectionist. Like, no, when you are an all or nothing person, you're mostly gonna find [00:17:00] yourself back in the nothing.
Monica: And I had forever. Yeah. So I had to find a new way and I worked through that with my identity and fulfillment. And then surprise, surprise, I realized those two. Had to be supported with my day-to-day habits in order for me to have time to insert fulfillment in my life. Even time for therapy. You know, I had to have better day-to-day habits that supported that better sleep.
Monica: For starters. As a reformed night owl, that was huge for me. But later in time it's become things like journaling and meditation, you know, all the other typical things, like a night routine or morning. And it was so not on purpose, but thankfully I had already a few years in my pocket with working on progress outside of perfectionism so I could kind of use what I was learning.
Monica: Yeah. With habit formation. And I can say it's those three things combined that really dramatically changed my life over the last seven years. And I will say that I didn't know I [00:18:00] was changing really? Mm-hmm. until a year. Okay. And I was cleaning up something again. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm that a year prior had made me so resentful and angry and I had this thought that literally stopped me in my tracks and the thought was, I feel so fulfilled.
Monica: Oh wow.
Meg: Yeah.
Monica: Doing the exact same chore. So even though progress takes a long time and we are first Sure. Gonna talk about that, you will see change. Outside of perfectionism, that is the true model to lasting change. It's not the all or nothing model. We've been served our whole lives and that translates to every area of our lives, including
Meg: have affirmation.
Meg: Thank you so much for telling your story, for trusting that story to our community, and I know it's something you've talked about at length on your. Podcast as well. I think that you make such a great point. I know myself as definitely a recovering perfectionist that [00:19:00] I was so resistant to confronting my own perfectionism that I would just be like, look at my house.
Meg: Or even when I was a student, a college student. Look at my dorm room, look at my desk. now as an adult. Look at my house. Mm-hmm. , a perfectionist doesn't live here. It's a mess. You know, there's things everywhere and in my mind, a perfectionist was somebody where you could look at their exterior and everything looked perfect.
Meg: Yeah. It was so hard to confront the fact that I had, you know, like you're talking about how many women have formed this and I think we talk a lot about personality stuff. I'm sort of awesome and things like birth order, and I am just like that typical eldest daughter, high achieving feeling like. either.
Meg: I'm gonna do it perfectly. or I won't do it. And that yeah, totally fits into what you were saying with the all or nothingness of it all. In fact, starting sort of awesome was, and then we started this in 2015. That was the first time, the first major project where I gave myself permission to be a beginner at something.
Meg: You know, [00:20:00] when we're, yeah, when we're beginning something, we can see it with our children. We can see it when we're starting a new job, when we're beginning. We don't pressure our kids to be perfect when they first try something. And I had to consciously say, it's okay. I'm a beginner. I have everything to learn and it's gonna be messy.
Meg: And I was well into my thirties. I was almost 40 when we started, sort of awesome. And it was the first time I was like, it's okay to be a beginner. It's okay if it's not perfect. And it has become, you know, a revolutionary approach for. To confront and then work through that perfectionism. So I'm like resonating so much with your story and, and what you're
Monica: sharing.
Monica: I'm so glad and you know, perfectionism is so sneaky. I think most women who I clearly can see, you're a perfectionist. And the woman that I'm working with and coaching for years now, when I'll say that, they'll go right to like the disqualifiers. What this, yes. Look at that. Mm-hmm. . I think most perfectionists are ones who don't think they qualify as perfect.
Monica: If you are [00:21:00] stuck on the sidelines of your life because of an outcome, whether you have it or you don't think you will, or your failure, your past failures are always standing in place of proof of who you are, then you are. You are a
Meg: perfectionist. Wow. Oh my gosh. That really is hitting home and I know so many of our awesomes who are listening are gonna really resonate with that as well.
Meg: Let's kind of talk about this a little bit, because as you mentioned, you have. Working with women teaching. Mm-hmm. and leading, just kind of being in the trenches as well alongside women. Let's kind of talk about some of the things that you have learned, the perfectionism piece for sure, but what else you've learned through conversations with women about.
Meg: What is this thing with us in habits and why do so many people feel the way I do? Like, I guess I'm just bad at habits. I can read books like Atomic Habits and you know, I can watch YouTube videos about how to form the habits that are gonna change your life. And I'll, here it is, January I'll
Monica: be trying it all.
Monica: Yes.
Meg: [00:22:00] And then I'm like, you know, a couple of weeks later, what happened to that? Where did it go? It just seems
Monica: like I just failed at a habit again.
Meg: Mm-hmm. . So let's talk a little bit about what you kind of uncovered along the way. I wanna start
Monica: with this big belief a lot of women have, and it's that they're broken.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , but not just broken. They're especially broken. Yeah. Meaning no, you don't understand. Mm-hmm. , I can't, these things don't work for me. I read the books, I watch the YouTube videos. I do the Pinterest search. And I always fail. Hmm. And this is, you know, not just habits. This can be many, many things. Right?
Monica: Yeah. So that belief that I am especially broken, I have seen, I have felt, and I experienced 100%, but I've also seen within the women in my community over and over and over again. And let's talk about habits specifically though, what the commonality is there. This is because our history is [00:23:00] showing that we fail, which means we are not only bad at habits, but we are especially bad because other people could do it.
Monica: And like all these methods that we're learning about the past couple years, you know, I've read all of those books when I started to like realize, okay, I do need. Get better at habits than I was reading in these books. I was really excited about them and great stuff, like really great things. They're highlighted dog eared to death.
Monica: But then when put into reality, when like put in my actual life, the habits that I installed with those methods still did not stick. And I went back to that belief. Well, I am, it's me. Yeah. We go right to shaming and blam. Ourselves. So here's what I wanna say about habit formation, though. What we are missing is that it's not that we are broken, and it's not that we are failing, it's that the methods we are following are broken and they are failing us.
Meg: Wow. Okay. I think you're the first person who said that in all of my searching through [00:24:00] all of the habit inspiration things, you're the first person to kind of call it out and be like, no baby, it's not you. It's these systems that are failing you. Okay?
Monica: And there's a huge research back reason why that takes me about like an hour to explain.
Monica: I won't share that full explanation now, but I'll start with an example. Okay? Why is this the case? Because if this is research back, these books, these methods, they are the most up to date. And I wanna also first say that I am one of. Obedient student types. Mm-hmm. , just tell me what to do and I'll do it. I trust authority
Monica: Oh yeah. Yeah. Really? Well, I am not naturally like a rebel. Mm-hmm. . So when I say these things, it's not just me being more of like a resistor. No, it's actually because this is the truth. These habit methods are not designed for real women living real lives, and that's all of us. listen. Yes, and the way I got to see that in action was first with myself when I was like, oh, I'm [00:25:00] failing at these.
Monica: But then I was like, you know, already in that zone of progress over perfection. I'm like, okay, Monica, you have to keep trying. You have to keep learning from the failures and keep going. But then when I was working with other women, the same thing was happening with them too. , I was there to help them with their fulfillment and their identity.
Monica: Mm-hmm. . But we could not, not talk about habits. Yes. But the women I was coaching, they were all failing too. And this was a whole range of women. Women who had children who did not. Women who worked full-time, who were retired. So we could not like say it's a pinpoint, like it's a special breed of woman. No.
Monica: It was every one of them. So let's go to the big example here. I'm gonna ask you a. How many days does it take to form a habit? To
Meg: form a habit? Yeah. I feel like the number I've heard before is 28 days. Yeah. Does that feel right? Or 21 days somewhere under the mud ?
Monica: Yeah. Most answers are usually 21 days or 28 days.
Monica: Yeah. Sometimes I get a 100 days. Okay. No matter what number, we all [00:26:00] have a number. Yes. I have yet to talk to any person who will not give me a number. Cuz they're like, what are you talking about? No. We all know there's a certain number. Now what that number demands from us is 100% rigid. Consistency. Right,
Meg: exactly.
Meg: And I feel like that's where the wheels come off the wagon for me. Every
Monica: time they do. And I'll tell you why in a moment. But let's start with day one. You have a new habit you wanna. You're committed, you have the motivation, you have the energy, you get started, and you're able to maintain that high level of energy, or at least exert it in some way so that you're able to have that rigid habit.
Monica: Like this is exactly the habit I want. Yes. So I will wake up at five 30 and I will exercise for an hour and shower and get ready. That's my habit. Yep. By the way, that's not a habit. That's a routine. That's part of the problem. Yes. That's part of how we're taught habits wrong. Mm. Okay. But then whether it's day three or day 20 of the 21 or 27 of the 28, something will [00:27:00] happen in your life that demands, you show up to it in a reactive way.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , that's the life of every woman. Again, regardless of if they have children in the home. And because of our reactive responsibilities that we need to be flexible for or because we have different hormones and cycles that we're dealing with. For sure. Even just bodily stuff. Let's say we do like 20 minutes of the workout.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , we're gonna say we failed. .
Meg: Yeah. We don't get to
Monica: check it off or if we skip it all together. So that exact consistency, that rigidity, that is not possible for women. Right. And it's not because we're weak, it's because we're not robots. Right?
Meg: Yes,
Monica: exactly. So let me just say, and I'm gonna teach this one thing because I'm getting all heated about this.
Monica: Yes. I wanted make, we talked to women about this consistency idea. Okay? Yeah. Mm-hmm. , the way we've been taught, consistency is that 100% rigid. That's the way we do it. That rigidity, consistency, that's the wrong definition altogether. [00:28:00] It's not doing the same thing at the same day, or same thing the same time of day.
Monica: Mm-hmm. day after day, I'll give my definition. Consistency is doing your best. Most of the time. Over time, your best is allowed to change. It's allowed to be flexible based on your season or your day or your circumstances. Most of the time is key. We're not going for 21, 28, 100 days of perfect rigidity.
Monica: We're going for most days. If you're trying to have a daily habit, and over time is also the key. Over time what we can do will build, yes, it will transform to the greater routine or the bigger habit that you're working on. So we have to start by redefining consistency and we also have to tide with that.
Monica: Have another way of forming habits for women that the habits themselves are designed to be. Which is a totally different way than we've ever been taught about habit formation. [00:29:00] Absolutely, yes. So that we can show up. Consistency is not possible without flexibility.
Meg: Okay. That's huge. That's huge. And as you're talking about flexibility, I'm just thinking about our community and all of the different.
Meg: Stages of life they do represent, and yes, when you're a mom with little kids, oh my gosh, it's like you don't even know. It's like this weird reality where it feels like every day is exactly the same. I get up, we make breakfast, you know? It feels like all of those things are exactly the same. But within any given day, things can make everything, you know, go wildly off track.
Meg: depending on, I'll be laughing cuz we both had this this
Monica: week. Yeah, exactly. , like I had a four-year-old in the ER all Monday. Yeah. And you had a sick kid. Yes. Just even something like that.
Meg: Exactly. And looking on the other end of life, like you said, you know the responsibilities. Responsibilities that you might have to a spouse or a partner to a community.
Meg: These things happen. Mm-hmm. , and we are called upon to come and help in a [00:30:00] situation or to sort out a situation, whatever it may be. But it doesn't even have to be kid involved, that things come up that wildly throw us off track. And then maybe you have a day off track. Maybe you have a week off track because it's like a major thing that you're.
Meg: Working through, and then it just feels like, well, I guess that habit's over and done with, I guess that crashed and burned again because there's not that space that is built in for flexibility. Mm-hmm. .
Monica: And then we go right into the shame or blame cycle where we blame ourselves, where we say, I'm not a habit person.
Monica: Yeah. That identity alone, we all have habit identities. Based off of our experience with them, that can just perpetuate a cycle of really trying hard out of nowhere, doing the all or nothing mode, and then crashing and burning, and then going back to blaming ourselves again. We have been taught habits wrong.
Monica: Yeah, just start there. Just start by saying, I am not especially broken. The methods are broken and they have failed me.
Meg: Wow. Okay. [00:31:00] This is mind blowing right now, and I'm sure a lot of the women that you work with, , I'm sure a lot of the women that you work with and that listen. About progress have had this epiphany of how could this possibly be true?
Meg: And if that is true, then how does this reshape, how does this change our paradigm of understanding this? So I know Monica has so much more to say about all of this. We're gonna uncover some more of this you guys when we come right back. Okay. We are back Awesomes in this very first episode of sort of Awesome for 2023.
Meg: Monica Packer of about progress is here and just completely. Completely dropping some huge truth bombs that I think all of us need to hear all year round, any day of the calendar. Even if you're not listening to this in January, maybe you're listening to it in July of 2023, whatever the time of year.
Meg: These are some truths that we need to hear. And so Monica, I'm left wondering, okay. I will happily embrace the idea that it's the sort of [00:32:00] habit forming structures and systems that are failing us. So then what does it look like on the other side of that realization?
Monica: One of the things I love talked about the most is the practical side to the things we're learning.
Monica: Yes. A lot of personal development out there is either really prescription based or really mindset based. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And not. Actually in between . Mm-hmm. , also a lot of toxic positivity, which we can just head aside and say, that's not for us. That's not for your community. That's not for my community. Yeah.
Monica: We don't do that here. Okay. But let's talk about practically, like what does this look like then? Because I do have a habit I want mm-hmm. and I need to work on this, and I want the result. So how does it look like? You're saying it needs to be flexible. I don't know what that looks like. Yeah, let's just start with that idea right there.
Monica: Okay. We'll just take that one idea that consistency is not possible without flexibility. And I will start this by saying it is still true that habits live or die by consistency. Okay. But [00:33:00] again, the definition is different Yeah. Than the one we've been given. So hold that in your hand. Okay. When I talk about consist.
Monica: doing your best most of the time. Over time. Okay? Mm-hmm. , let's say we have a habit we wanna start with, what typically happens is that we have an ideal, ideally we would love, this is kind of our best of day version. That's like the full morning routine I shared with you. But let's do another example.
Monica: Let's talk about journaling. Okay? So let's say like ideally at night when you're going to bed, you would love to have the habit where you reflect in your journal. And maybe it's for a certain amount of pages or a certain amount of time. Either way, you know what this looks like, the first problem we make, or the first mistake that we make, you know, this has been taught to us as we start there.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , we start with the ideal. Yeah. And pretty soon we're gonna have a less than ideal day. Mm-hmm. . We're gonna have a day where we are exhausted at the end of the. A day where we have no motivation, because guess what? Motivation is [00:34:00] just energy.
Meg: Yes.
Monica: And it is not a limitless resource, right? Yeah. The amount of willpower, motivation, it can grow over time.
Monica: There is science about that, but it's still not limitless for anybody. So when you have a less ideal day, you can't do that ideal habit and then the consistency goes. Yeah. So this is how we work around. Your habits themselves need to be designed to be flexible, so you do have an ideal in mind. You know what that ideal is?
Monica: I call this casting a vision. You cast a vision of what the habit is that you would love to have, but you don't start there. Instead, you start with what I call as a worst of day version, which is a baseline. Okay? So instead of always going for the high line of what you want, you have a base. Initially, when you are installing a new habit, you force yourself to only do the baseline.
Monica: Okay. So with journaling? Mm-hmm. , this could look like writing one line in your journal. Got it. Yeah. Meditating. It [00:35:00] could be taking one deep breath. Oh, wow. Okay. That simple. Your baseline needs to be the smallest and simplest version. Yes. Of your ideal habit. Almost laughably, small and simple. It's okay. Like where you're like really?
Monica: Yeah. Yeah. Really bad counts. Right? So let me tell you how this looks when you install this new habit. I said, you start with the baseline. Mm-hmm. . And the reason why is because that way your brain believes you on the days where you're having a worst of day. Yeah. And you say, I only have to do the baseline.
Monica: And you're like, but you've never done that. Yeah. You know, your brain's gonna, um, no. You always only write two pages. Yeah. Or journal for 10 minutes or even five minutes, which can be too long on some days, right? So at least the first few times you force yourself to stop with a baseline, okay? But once you have that baseline in play, there's a few exciting things that happen.
Monica: The first is that you now have a foundation. The consistency you need to build. [00:36:00] Yeah. That means on the worst of days, you can write one incomplete sentence in your journal. You can take one deep breath. You can do one stretch instead of a whole yoga routine and say, I did it. Yes. Oh my God. You did my job today,
Meg: Monica.
Meg: This is blowing my mind. I love it. I mean, I'm just thinking about and processing. It's so true. I've never thought about all of us when we're highly motivated, highly energized, enthusiastic energy for. We wanna start at that peak, that ideal, at the top of our game. And when you're starting there, it's almost like there's nowhere to go but down.
Meg: You know? Yes. It leaves so much room for slipping off of that ideal and feeling worse and worse, but when you're starting at that baseline, oh my gosh, there's nowhere to go but up to, you know? Yes. Continu. Build on it. And like you said, for your brain to believe like, oh no, no, it's okay. It's okay if it's one incomplete sentence.
Meg: That's all right. That's the baseline. Yep. It's no big
Monica: deal. And a lot of women get frustrated with the baseline. I did. [00:37:00] Cuz they're like, that's not the habit I want. Yeah, and I hear you, but I'm telling you, if you want that ideal habit, this is the way. Yeah. You are more likely to have that ideal more often and in more sustainable.
Monica: When you start with a baseline and always have it for you to come back to. Yeah. On the less than ideal days, or it's often a version in between like writing a paragraph or at least a complete sentence. Mm-hmm. , so I was saying that, you know, one thing it does is that it helps you have the consistency you need.
Monica: The other thing that Baseline does is it helps you build way easier with lower energy required. Yeah. Those ideals require a ton of. . That's why we say we don't have motivation or willpower when really we're just saying we don't have the energy because life. Mm-hmm. , life happens. Mm-hmm. , every day life happens.
Monica: But when you have a baseline, you are not relying on motivation. You are instead creating momentum. A momentum requires a small amount of energies, but it [00:38:00] also builds. So in the moment, especially after those first few times of you forcing yourself. Oftentimes you'll find yourself saying, ah, I can write another incomplete sentence, or I can do another stretch, or I can do another couple minutes on this.
Monica: You get in the momentum, and that's just science. That's just literally physics. Okay. It is physics. Yeah. So not only in the moment Yeah. Will you build, but over time you will build much faster and in more sustainable ways towards the ideal than if you started with it. Yeah. And those baselines always have things for you to fall back on.
Monica: So for example, You probably keep seeing me like arch back. It's because I'm 32 weeks pregnant right now. Yes, with my fifth with just fun. But this summer, Was awful. like, yeah. I was just so, so sick. Mm. Basically deathly ill with morning sickness for four months straight. I still was able to maintain the most supportive habits for myself because of these baselines.
Meg: Wow. Yeah. That is remarkable. Yeah. Not even like [00:39:00] external factors that are. Throwing you off your game or making you feel like out of sync, out of your habits, but when it's coming from literally within your body, and to be able to sustain those habits that are so meaningful to you through that, that's very remarkable.
Monica: And even those mental battles that we just can't control either. Yes. I mean, I'm happier than I've ever been overall, still deal with routine bouts of depression. Mm-hmm. , it's just part of my life. And when I have those unexpected bouts of depress. I know I still need to be supported. Yes, I need to be supported with some habits like sleep and exercise and eating, but it's not in the same way when I'm not in those episodes.
Monica: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But those baselines are what give me still consistency. I need to Yes. When I'm starting to do better. Build a lot easier Yes. And a lot more quickly. Yes. Than when I'm telling myself it only. If I do this full thing
Meg: right. I also suffer from depression, and I know in the midst [00:40:00] of a depressive episode, energy is like the most laughable thing.
Meg: Yeah. To think like I could just somehow generate energy to do
Monica: anything, almost feels like an energy disease, right? Yes, it really does.
Meg: Is it absolutely does. That's a perfect
Monica: way to describe
Meg: it, but to think that if I have in placed these baseline, For what this looks like, it's like it's okay if I can't summon the energy for it because I can say, I can write an incomplete sentence about today.
Meg: Mm-hmm. that is manageable and I don't have to try to drum up energy when I know that energy's not gonna be there. So, yeah, to make it so attainable, I guess is kind of the word I'm looking for is really, I don't know. I keep saying mind blowing, but it's changing my perspective on so many things,
Monica: and even more than just the habit itself, because admittedly, one deep breath won't help you maybe quite as much as like a five minute meditation, right?
Monica: Mm-hmm. , it's still [00:41:00] this habit identity that you are building inside yourself. Yeah. It still gives you a sense of confidence and belief in yourself that you do show. For yourself. Mm-hmm. even on these hardest of days, even if it's different than you wanted. So my baselines were laughably simple and small, but it still helped me feel supported.
Monica: Even in the small ways, and it also gave me the foundation I needed. And I'll say it's gonna change again. I'm gonna have that baby in January right in the nick of time of us having our highest motivation to work on goals and habits and resolution. and I will have to stay only baselines. And that's okay.
Monica: And I'll say one more thing about this. I know I'm getting really passionate about it. I appreciate you've giving me so much airtime. Of course. The last really, really cool thing I wanna say about baselines, and I still think I could say many more things, but the last really cool. Is that because of baselines, you can have a new habit in just a matter of days.
Monica: Oh, wow.
Meg: Yes. That's it. Forget 21
Monica: days. No, you [00:42:00] don't have to wait. You don't have to have that rigidity. And even if it's still like most of the time you're doing the baselines. You have the habit, you have it. You don't have to wait for that ideal perfection for a certain number of days in a row to say, you have this habit, you've got
Meg: it.
Meg: Oh, wow. That's so encouraging. I honestly thought that when we were talking about this and like how long does it take to form a habit and you know, 21, 2800 days. I thought you were gonna say it's actually like a year or something. I don't know. I didn't know what you were gonna say, . I was not prepared for you to be like, no, no.
Meg: It's a matter of days when this is what it looks like where you're starting from and building these baselines for it. That is exactly what we need to hear at the start of the year, I
Monica: think. I love hearing that, and I'll say there's of course a lot more to this, you know, in terms. Another thing we get wrong is we don't have habit plans.
Monica: We just say, starting Monday I'm doing this new habit. Mm-hmm. . And it's not connected to anything. It's not specific. That's a whole other thing. There's a lot more to it, but what we've talked [00:43:00] about, I think are the most fundamental mindset shifts and also practical shifts that women can make if they're ready to do habits differently.
Monica: In
Meg: 2023. Oh my goodness. Monica, this has been so good and I know that everyone who's listening, if they haven't already been listening to about progress, they're gonna wanna come and find you and hear more about this. And I know it's not just like you do have the podcast and again, wildly popular, very successful podcast, but you also have other things that you're doing.
Meg: Tell us all about what you have going on, where we can find you, if we wanna connect with you, if we wanna hear more from.
Monica: Yeah, definitely do the podcast. That's my main thing. Mm-hmm. , and I'm so passionate about it. If they want to know more about what I have to say about why we need to do habits differently as women, I have a 55 minute class on it.
Monica: Okay. That's free. And it's called the number one Reason Why Women Must Do Habits differently. And I'm gonna share the research back reason why this is okay. And again, it's not because we have to have. Dumb down for us, it's mm-hmm. because we are awesome humans, , and [00:44:00] we have a legit different lives Yes.
Monica: Than men lives. Okay. So they can sign up at about progress.com/habit class. Okay. And I also do have a course called the Sticky Habit Method. Okay. And that's where you'll get what we did today, times 10. And I feel like it's the answer for women and have affirm.
Meg: I absolutely love it. And again, perfect timing for this time of year, for those of us who do, I mean, yes, January brings this surge of energy and like, can we do things differently?
Meg: What is this year gonna look like? But then it's kind of, if I just keep doing the things I've been doing, I don't know, but just hearing, yeah. All of this inspiration, oh, we can make this, we can make it happen. And this can be the. ,
Monica: and I feel like I have to end by just saying, so I said a year in, I could see some pretty significant differences in my life, and that was just with me working on identity and fulfillment.
Monica: Mm-hmm. , I didn't even have the habit for part to it, but now, seven years later, my life does look pretty darn different. Not in [00:45:00] terms of I have the same responsibilities, the same husband. We're about to add a second child on top of the three we have. Right? There are differences there, but I mean, I feel totally different, and it's not because I feel different.
Monica: I feel like myself and my life is different on the outside now to support that self. Mm-hmm. and I show up differently, not just for myself, but for my responsibilities in ways that would have felt miraculous to me seven years ago. So yes, progress still does take time, but for the women who are starting the year, I'm convinced that they can never change.
Monica: I wanna tell you, yes, you. You can and you will. It just takes time. That's the
Meg: perfect note to end this on. Monica, thank you so much for your time and for bringing this wisdom. Thank you. I know this is gonna be a pivotal episode, a pivotal conversation for so many of our Awesome. So thank you again so
Monica: much.
Monica: I appreciate it. Thank you for all the time you've given me today. Of course,
Meg: of course. Awesomes, if you wanna [00:46:00] find me on social media, you know you can find me at sorta awesome. You can find the show by searching sorta awesome wherever you are on social media. Happy New Year everybody, and awesome sick so much for listening.
Meg: We'll see y'all next time.